IPsec protocols ESP and AH are also common examples -- IP protocols 50 and 51<br><br>Bob Overberg<br><a href="mailto:R.Overberg@ieee.org">R.Overberg@ieee.org</a><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Bryan J Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org">b.j.smith@ieee.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Thanx, I was hoping I'd find someone who agreed.<br>
<br>
There are so many, common solutions aspects of exchange that do not.� Ping is a type of ICMP (IP protocol 1).� The type is contained in the header of the IP packet (layer 3) itself, and does not use a transport.� There are several others involved with PXEBoot'ing, which is very, very important when you're trying to netboot systems.� And I can state countless other, "real world" examples too.� And that's before I dive into security aspects.<br>
<br>
Understand I dove into this because I run into individuals at clients that not only think _exactly_ like this, but that one individual will undermine my trying to help the rest of their team.� It's one thing to get the dumb stare like many do when we walk into Radio Shack, that's understandable as I don't expect everyone to know everything, but only where their experience has been.� But it's not about not following, it's about _undermining_ the knowledge some someone is trying to share it, and help you.<br>
<br>
I've been involved with everything from IEEE subcomittees to government installations to 5 figures of nodes in computing and trading grids.� There is nothing more destructive than people talking where they don't have experience, and stating incorrect information.� It starts with over-simplification, but that's usually not bad.� Most people do web, maybe remote shells, and you're talking TCP segments passing back and forth between source and destination ports.� But I saw where it was going, and my assumptions proved right.� They quickly became factually incorrect.<br>
<br>
You don't have to be doing real-time, Infiniband and other exchanges to not have transports using ports.� There are many, common IP protocols and framing exchange, even some higher-level applications, that do not use transports with ports.� As I used as an example above, troubleshooting PXEboot is one area where you really need to be familiar with this, especially.� But I could dive into many other, real world cases.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
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----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Joel J. <<a href="mailto:tcepsa@gmail.com">tcepsa@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div><div class="im">Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:11 PM<br>
<br>
GGR> Yes, every application that talks over the network or within the<br>
OS itself has a port, it may be a temporary port, but it is<br>
GGR> present. In fact when 1 app talks to another app within the same<br>
server/pc, a port is opened for communication. It may not be<br>
GGR> seen on the network, but it is still present.<br>
<br>
I'm going to have to go with Brian on this one.� For example, I<br>
present the humble ping application.� It communicates with another<br>
computer across a network, yet does not use a port.<br>
<br>
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